As a strength conditioning coach/personal trainer for the last 30 years I have found that whatever exercise gets an individual exercising more consistently and frequently, is the best form of exercise for them.
Self experimentation is so important for non-athletes to do. Try different types and protocols of exercise until you find the combination that you can do consistently and delivers the results you want, regardless of what experts and studies tell us.
Use the experts and studies to learn different approaches, but work on what works for you. It might be unique to you, but if it works it works.
I think about Zone 2 as the base that enables you to do quality high-intensity work. For me, high-intensity training feels like the reward — a small window when I have the opportunity to push myself. When I'm too fatigue to train, I just take long walks instead.
As you mentioned, most of Zone 2 is easy to "automate" with the right habits and by staying active throughout the day.
I think the emphasis on training zones has taken all the fun and enjoyment out of exercise. We should go back to a time before heart rate training. The data is making people obsessed and confused. I like to train moderately hard most days. Once a month sign up for a race and push yourself to your red line. Let your body recover and do it again.
Well said. Majoring in the minor sometimes has unintended downstream effects...I found myself getting mentally exhausted trying to balance it all. In the end, movement of all forms seems to be better than no movement at all, and unless you're a pro athlete or trying to really push the boundaries within your particular field, I think it makes little sense to be so dogmatic & rigid.
Sometimes I feel like the only person not wearing a smart watch or fitness tracker (often because I am).
It's common now to be doing a trail run or just be out on a walk, and I see many people habitually glancing at their wrists -presumably- to learn how their body is doing.
I even chose to stop using my phone for tracking time/distance when I began to feel "it didn't count" unless it was logged.
This is so interesting. I'm 57 and a mountain biker who did lots of zone 2 in the winter months. I started to notice that I didn't sleep great after zone 2. But I was okay after hard Norwegian 4x4 (HIIT) rides. In Dr. Stacy Sims book, Next Level, she writes that zone 2 leaves post-menopausal women in an inflammatory state. Cortisol may remain higher. Ever since, I've added more sprints and hill repeats into my weekly catalogue of rides. And when I join a longer group gravel ride, I make sure to get hit some higher efforts and don't spend all my time in zone 2. And I'm sleeping better!
Totally. Brendon Gurd agreed with that. My understanding of his point is that we may be missing the high HR work, which typically comes through exercise.
My guess is that if a person has, say, a few weekly hours to exercise, don't be afraid to have a high HR. In fact, probably lean into that (not saying to insane intervals every workout, but you get the point). Then look for daily life opportunities to move more to rack up more low HR work.
Better yet: Just exercise more and have dedicated sessions that are both higher HR and lower HR. That's not as practical for those w/ limited time, but better from the health/fitness perspective.
Agreed. The prescription really depends on the individual. As we age, intensity is associated with a longer recovery burden and perhaps increased injury risk. My mantra is never to let todays workout ruin tomorrows. I'm at the age and place where consistency matters more to me.
That being said, I work intensity into two of my runs each week. I tack intensity onto the end of a longish, slower run. Hill repeats, hill strides, or some track work... whatever I feel like in the moment.
Plus... I'm a trail runner and rock climber... both of which can easily keep my HR well above AeT. I don't avoid intenisty... and most people shouldn't.
Charles Darwin deliberately sought out contrarian thoughts, thoughts that differed from his theories and beliefs.
Thanks for posting this non-mainstream review (and your analysis) of Zone 2. Even before reading this, I've been doing more heavy rucking in the woods nearby, because I find it more enjoyable (and harder) than monotonous Z2 training. Definitely seems like I get more out of time spent rucking and getting my heart rate up. But I felt a bit guilty...thinking I'm not doing it right.
A big part of gaining wisdom is exposing one's beliefs to contrarian information and being open to upgrading beliefs. Time to strap on the pack and not worry.
Loved the article. My take on Zone 2 is it’s the zone we should be living in our daily lives with movement. Walking, work, gardening, playing with my kids, or running around with my pups. The higher, shorter burst of work represents a hunt, kill, or bringing food back to my tribe. Just the way it processes in my brain.
This makes so much sense. I’ve never understood the zone 2 craze—it just doesn’t feel like it’s hard unless it’s for hours, and the dialog around it leaves me thinking anything else you do is substantially worse? Thanks for the write up—I’ll continue just working out and enjoying life! :)
It’s crazy such hugely impactful people are now having to consider a massive u turn, and how they could get it so wrong possibly in the first place. I mean Peter Attia had experts on (named in this article) who were so adamant about zone 2. So now we are saying for average joe/jane that it’s best to do 3-4 hit sessions or zone 5 cycles per week?! So confused also.
“Some people have interpreted this paper as us pushing high-intensity interval training, but we’re not,” he said. “Any exercise you can do is good. Whatever you enjoy, that’s what you should do. If the Zone 2 craze has gotten more people to exercise, that’s great.”
“But let’s say you’re trying to maximize the return on your time. If some of the messaging says to only do Zone 2 and that going harder could be causing some harm, that’s problematic. If people are now exercising less intensely because of this messaging, then that’s a downside.”
The point is that for people with limited time to exercise, more intensity if probably better. Once you've gotten enough higher intensities, then zone 2 becomes very valuable.
Exactly but for most average people, what is enough higher intensities? It’s staggering that such intelligent high profile teams of people have made such a mistake on how to exercise best for your heart. Or maybe this is the influencer curse. Even Attia himself says he only has 4-6hrs a week to do cardio now. So take cycling would the average person be better doing 4 Norwegian sessions a week and scrapping the zone 2… probably if we believe this paper. So that’s massive, it changes people’s time commitments, it could be great for reducing injuries as well. They used to say you need zone 2 for the base of the pyramid but maybe not
This is my point though. If the rules have now changed we need new guidance for non pro athletes. A Norwegian takes just 32 minutes of which half is rest. So perhaps the week now looks more evenly split between hard and easy. I would now say I’m no expert but seems the influencers and scientists had little idea either till now
I don’t necessarily think Attia is off the mark, especially depending how you define z2. Also, it’s important to individualize exercise based on many factors such as age, fitness level, time available to exercise, ability to recover, etc. I think walking/movement is always good (vs sitting). Then, on top of that, I think z2-3 is a good way to build a base. By that, I mean, do exercise in a form you love and push yourself a little but not so much that you’re wiped out afterwards. Maybe even add in some harder pushes. Then re intervals, do the Norwegian 4x4 once or twice a week and see how you recover. If recovery is good, continue to up the intensity or add more sessions. I think it’s very individual to find the balance between recovery and intensity, and I think it also can vary for the same person depending on other stressors or illnesses. So my ramble is just to say I don’t think there’s an easy answer or a one-size-fits-all.
I'm not sure that's so far from the ratio of high intensity and low intensity pro cyclists are doing. They can just do more of both because it's their job and they are fitter so they can just handle more total volume.
I'm not so sure it's bad, just a scaled down ratio. How many HITT work outs can you do before you are overtrained? Probably a lot less than a professional. Bad would be hurting someone, less than optimal sure but optimal will change for each person and would need to be reoptimized for that individual with time so we fall back on rules of thumb.
I find it all interesting but I don't structure my training so precisely. For me I would loose interest if I had to be so precise.
You’re more likely to get overtrained or injured through overuse which zone 2 would do as your doing more time, so any movement issue you have gets amplified
Excellent post. The kind that explains why I subscribe to Two Percent. Timely for me as I’ve been doing some head scratching on heart rate zones, max HR, RPE and VO2 Max. I was close to sending you a message to ask you for a post on this. This got to the key thing that I’m dealing with. Most of my workouts end up in Zone 3 with the Zone 2 being the ramp up and down (Zone 4/5 are by design workouts). With the noise about Zone 2 I felt like I’d need to slow down to a pace that would feel downright boring. Thanks.
Regarding Zone 2 training? WHO comes to us? What are they bringing to us?
We know that intensity is 'relative.' A 1-mile level walk in 15:00 [4mph pace] is Zone 2 for JOHN, and near impossible [Zone 5] for JACK.
✅Is our client:
time-crunched or time affluent? Living and working a screen-stuck movement-sucking lifestyle?
Or a physically active occupation?
A newbie? fit and trained? for months or decades? competitive?
Healthy + low risk? high-risk? known poly-morbidities? KNOWN CV-metabolic diseases?
Weekend warrior? seasonal sports / recreation / dance / adventure / for the 'sheer fun' of it?
A mixed bag?
Obviously I would conduct a thorough eval and determine status of each 7S 'Functional Freedom' Training Bucket.
TWO scenarios:
✅ JACK: A screen-stuck 35 yo sedentary newbie with NO known risk factors; has TWO 1-hour time slots available for formal training; has a wearable and is willing to track steps. No current physical hobbies or sport-recreation. Lives in a condo. "Hates 'exercise' ... but knows he must, unless he wants to end up like his father."
All Buckets need work!
✔️FOR NOW: establish a pattern!
Over time, I would progress towards filling all 7S Training Buckets, via this 'recipe' in each formal training session: foam roll-soft tissue work-stretching | dynamic mobility-movement prep | neuromotor skills | light implement + BW power | strength | a HIIT finisher [scaled].
On work days, track steps, use stairs, and GOMA [Get Off My Ass] as often as possible.
On Sat and Sun, WALK for 10:00 straight BEFORE NOON; GO OUT; seek sunshine; DO anything that does NOT use a screen].
✔️ Jack has had success and wants to progress. Now the FUN begins!
✅JOHN: A 35 yo construction worker [lifts, carries, crouches, reaches all day long]; NO known risk factors, a banged up MSK system from physical labor, HS athletics and his adventures; has ONE 1-hour time slot on Wednesday after work, available for formal training; gets around 15-20K steps/day. Hunts, DH skis, XC skis, mountain bikes on weekends. Does all his own landscaping, snow removal etc.
Suppleness & Stability Bucket needs work. Gait, strength, power and skills OK. Wants more high-end stamina for weekend pursuits.
✔️FOR NOW: address the 'kinks and leaks' in his kinetic chain; give him what he 'needs' so he can continue working AND doing what he loves to do, while fortifying his injury buffer.
I would start with foam roll-soft tissue work-stretching | dynamic mobility-movement prep [as homework, too] and a HIIT bout [Assault bike to get 'off' joints mid-week]
On all other days, foam roll-soft tissue work-stretch static + dynamic mobility; after work M-F, anytime on weekends.
Continue being the 'weekend warrior' based on the season.
Oh, and take one weekend day off from HARD physical work-play.
✔️As Suppleness + Stability improve, I would layer on 'robustness' in the remaining Buckets.
✅ Now, John wants to compete in a local mountain bike race, in 5 months. Ok, let's get after it.
Hey Michael! Love the material and really appreciate the work on the audio version. This one was a little rough, though. The second half has more than a few instances where the AI audio gets spazzy. I glanced at the player and if you start listening with about 3 minutes left, you'll hear an instance or two in a 60 second window. I've noticed that the quality has been going down slightly over the past month or two as well (the ai audio - not your material).
Still love it! Please keep it up! But wanted to be sure you were aware.
As a strength conditioning coach/personal trainer for the last 30 years I have found that whatever exercise gets an individual exercising more consistently and frequently, is the best form of exercise for them.
Self experimentation is so important for non-athletes to do. Try different types and protocols of exercise until you find the combination that you can do consistently and delivers the results you want, regardless of what experts and studies tell us.
Use the experts and studies to learn different approaches, but work on what works for you. It might be unique to you, but if it works it works.
Agree with many points you've made.
I think about Zone 2 as the base that enables you to do quality high-intensity work. For me, high-intensity training feels like the reward — a small window when I have the opportunity to push myself. When I'm too fatigue to train, I just take long walks instead.
As you mentioned, most of Zone 2 is easy to "automate" with the right habits and by staying active throughout the day.
I think the emphasis on training zones has taken all the fun and enjoyment out of exercise. We should go back to a time before heart rate training. The data is making people obsessed and confused. I like to train moderately hard most days. Once a month sign up for a race and push yourself to your red line. Let your body recover and do it again.
Well said. Majoring in the minor sometimes has unintended downstream effects...I found myself getting mentally exhausted trying to balance it all. In the end, movement of all forms seems to be better than no movement at all, and unless you're a pro athlete or trying to really push the boundaries within your particular field, I think it makes little sense to be so dogmatic & rigid.
Yes.
Sometimes I feel like the only person not wearing a smart watch or fitness tracker (often because I am).
It's common now to be doing a trail run or just be out on a walk, and I see many people habitually glancing at their wrists -presumably- to learn how their body is doing.
I even chose to stop using my phone for tracking time/distance when I began to feel "it didn't count" unless it was logged.
You’re probably enjoying the activity more than anyone else.
This is so interesting. I'm 57 and a mountain biker who did lots of zone 2 in the winter months. I started to notice that I didn't sleep great after zone 2. But I was okay after hard Norwegian 4x4 (HIIT) rides. In Dr. Stacy Sims book, Next Level, she writes that zone 2 leaves post-menopausal women in an inflammatory state. Cortisol may remain higher. Ever since, I've added more sprints and hill repeats into my weekly catalogue of rides. And when I join a longer group gravel ride, I make sure to get hit some higher efforts and don't spend all my time in zone 2. And I'm sleeping better!
Easy low HR work is needed to build volume. High HR work is needed for numerous cardiovascular benefits.
There’s a time and place for it all.
Totally. Brendon Gurd agreed with that. My understanding of his point is that we may be missing the high HR work, which typically comes through exercise.
My guess is that if a person has, say, a few weekly hours to exercise, don't be afraid to have a high HR. In fact, probably lean into that (not saying to insane intervals every workout, but you get the point). Then look for daily life opportunities to move more to rack up more low HR work.
Better yet: Just exercise more and have dedicated sessions that are both higher HR and lower HR. That's not as practical for those w/ limited time, but better from the health/fitness perspective.
Agreed. The prescription really depends on the individual. As we age, intensity is associated with a longer recovery burden and perhaps increased injury risk. My mantra is never to let todays workout ruin tomorrows. I'm at the age and place where consistency matters more to me.
That being said, I work intensity into two of my runs each week. I tack intensity onto the end of a longish, slower run. Hill repeats, hill strides, or some track work... whatever I feel like in the moment.
Plus... I'm a trail runner and rock climber... both of which can easily keep my HR well above AeT. I don't avoid intenisty... and most people shouldn't.
Completely agree. I think the reason zone two is important is just as much for injury prevention as it is for endurance.
Charles Darwin deliberately sought out contrarian thoughts, thoughts that differed from his theories and beliefs.
Thanks for posting this non-mainstream review (and your analysis) of Zone 2. Even before reading this, I've been doing more heavy rucking in the woods nearby, because I find it more enjoyable (and harder) than monotonous Z2 training. Definitely seems like I get more out of time spent rucking and getting my heart rate up. But I felt a bit guilty...thinking I'm not doing it right.
A big part of gaining wisdom is exposing one's beliefs to contrarian information and being open to upgrading beliefs. Time to strap on the pack and not worry.
"Time to strap on the pack and not worry" is great advice.
Loved the article. My take on Zone 2 is it’s the zone we should be living in our daily lives with movement. Walking, work, gardening, playing with my kids, or running around with my pups. The higher, shorter burst of work represents a hunt, kill, or bringing food back to my tribe. Just the way it processes in my brain.
This makes so much sense. I’ve never understood the zone 2 craze—it just doesn’t feel like it’s hard unless it’s for hours, and the dialog around it leaves me thinking anything else you do is substantially worse? Thanks for the write up—I’ll continue just working out and enjoying life! :)
Happy turkey trot season!
It’s crazy such hugely impactful people are now having to consider a massive u turn, and how they could get it so wrong possibly in the first place. I mean Peter Attia had experts on (named in this article) who were so adamant about zone 2. So now we are saying for average joe/jane that it’s best to do 3-4 hit sessions or zone 5 cycles per week?! So confused also.
Re: HIIT. Not at all. Here's this from the post:
“Some people have interpreted this paper as us pushing high-intensity interval training, but we’re not,” he said. “Any exercise you can do is good. Whatever you enjoy, that’s what you should do. If the Zone 2 craze has gotten more people to exercise, that’s great.”
“But let’s say you’re trying to maximize the return on your time. If some of the messaging says to only do Zone 2 and that going harder could be causing some harm, that’s problematic. If people are now exercising less intensely because of this messaging, then that’s a downside.”
The point is that for people with limited time to exercise, more intensity if probably better. Once you've gotten enough higher intensities, then zone 2 becomes very valuable.
Exactly but for most average people, what is enough higher intensities? It’s staggering that such intelligent high profile teams of people have made such a mistake on how to exercise best for your heart. Or maybe this is the influencer curse. Even Attia himself says he only has 4-6hrs a week to do cardio now. So take cycling would the average person be better doing 4 Norwegian sessions a week and scrapping the zone 2… probably if we believe this paper. So that’s massive, it changes people’s time commitments, it could be great for reducing injuries as well. They used to say you need zone 2 for the base of the pyramid but maybe not
I’m not sure the average person has the capacity for 4 Norwegian 4x4 sessions a week?!
This is my point though. If the rules have now changed we need new guidance for non pro athletes. A Norwegian takes just 32 minutes of which half is rest. So perhaps the week now looks more evenly split between hard and easy. I would now say I’m no expert but seems the influencers and scientists had little idea either till now
I don’t necessarily think Attia is off the mark, especially depending how you define z2. Also, it’s important to individualize exercise based on many factors such as age, fitness level, time available to exercise, ability to recover, etc. I think walking/movement is always good (vs sitting). Then, on top of that, I think z2-3 is a good way to build a base. By that, I mean, do exercise in a form you love and push yourself a little but not so much that you’re wiped out afterwards. Maybe even add in some harder pushes. Then re intervals, do the Norwegian 4x4 once or twice a week and see how you recover. If recovery is good, continue to up the intensity or add more sessions. I think it’s very individual to find the balance between recovery and intensity, and I think it also can vary for the same person depending on other stressors or illnesses. So my ramble is just to say I don’t think there’s an easy answer or a one-size-fits-all.
Am I the only one who heard the billy goat in the audio of this article, at 3:17 and 3:02 in the in-line player? 😅
I was rolling!
I started to focus on Zone 2 after reading Dr. Attila’s Outlive. I wonder if he will change his recommendations.
Does Attila not also do and recomend higher intensity along with the one 2?
He said do zone 2 for 1-1.5 hrs 3-5 times a week and then one zone 5 session. So basically the polar opposite of what this study is saying
I'm not sure that's so far from the ratio of high intensity and low intensity pro cyclists are doing. They can just do more of both because it's their job and they are fitter so they can just handle more total volume.
Exactly but the point being, the vast majority of the listeners are not pro cyclists so it’s the wrong advice
I'm not so sure it's bad, just a scaled down ratio. How many HITT work outs can you do before you are overtrained? Probably a lot less than a professional. Bad would be hurting someone, less than optimal sure but optimal will change for each person and would need to be reoptimized for that individual with time so we fall back on rules of thumb.
I find it all interesting but I don't structure my training so precisely. For me I would loose interest if I had to be so precise.
You’re more likely to get overtrained or injured through overuse which zone 2 would do as your doing more time, so any movement issue you have gets amplified
I'm so confused.
Thanks for posting Brady’s perspective on this topic, I figured he would have something important to say about this!
Excellent post. The kind that explains why I subscribe to Two Percent. Timely for me as I’ve been doing some head scratching on heart rate zones, max HR, RPE and VO2 Max. I was close to sending you a message to ask you for a post on this. This got to the key thing that I’m dealing with. Most of my workouts end up in Zone 3 with the Zone 2 being the ramp up and down (Zone 4/5 are by design workouts). With the noise about Zone 2 I felt like I’d need to slow down to a pace that would feel downright boring. Thanks.
Thank you, Michael!
Regarding Zone 2 training? WHO comes to us? What are they bringing to us?
We know that intensity is 'relative.' A 1-mile level walk in 15:00 [4mph pace] is Zone 2 for JOHN, and near impossible [Zone 5] for JACK.
✅Is our client:
time-crunched or time affluent? Living and working a screen-stuck movement-sucking lifestyle?
Or a physically active occupation?
A newbie? fit and trained? for months or decades? competitive?
Healthy + low risk? high-risk? known poly-morbidities? KNOWN CV-metabolic diseases?
Weekend warrior? seasonal sports / recreation / dance / adventure / for the 'sheer fun' of it?
A mixed bag?
Obviously I would conduct a thorough eval and determine status of each 7S 'Functional Freedom' Training Bucket.
TWO scenarios:
✅ JACK: A screen-stuck 35 yo sedentary newbie with NO known risk factors; has TWO 1-hour time slots available for formal training; has a wearable and is willing to track steps. No current physical hobbies or sport-recreation. Lives in a condo. "Hates 'exercise' ... but knows he must, unless he wants to end up like his father."
All Buckets need work!
✔️FOR NOW: establish a pattern!
Over time, I would progress towards filling all 7S Training Buckets, via this 'recipe' in each formal training session: foam roll-soft tissue work-stretching | dynamic mobility-movement prep | neuromotor skills | light implement + BW power | strength | a HIIT finisher [scaled].
On work days, track steps, use stairs, and GOMA [Get Off My Ass] as often as possible.
On Sat and Sun, WALK for 10:00 straight BEFORE NOON; GO OUT; seek sunshine; DO anything that does NOT use a screen].
✔️ Jack has had success and wants to progress. Now the FUN begins!
✅JOHN: A 35 yo construction worker [lifts, carries, crouches, reaches all day long]; NO known risk factors, a banged up MSK system from physical labor, HS athletics and his adventures; has ONE 1-hour time slot on Wednesday after work, available for formal training; gets around 15-20K steps/day. Hunts, DH skis, XC skis, mountain bikes on weekends. Does all his own landscaping, snow removal etc.
Suppleness & Stability Bucket needs work. Gait, strength, power and skills OK. Wants more high-end stamina for weekend pursuits.
✔️FOR NOW: address the 'kinks and leaks' in his kinetic chain; give him what he 'needs' so he can continue working AND doing what he loves to do, while fortifying his injury buffer.
I would start with foam roll-soft tissue work-stretching | dynamic mobility-movement prep [as homework, too] and a HIIT bout [Assault bike to get 'off' joints mid-week]
On all other days, foam roll-soft tissue work-stretch static + dynamic mobility; after work M-F, anytime on weekends.
Continue being the 'weekend warrior' based on the season.
Oh, and take one weekend day off from HARD physical work-play.
✔️As Suppleness + Stability improve, I would layer on 'robustness' in the remaining Buckets.
✅ Now, John wants to compete in a local mountain bike race, in 5 months. Ok, let's get after it.
👍⛰️
Hey Michael! Love the material and really appreciate the work on the audio version. This one was a little rough, though. The second half has more than a few instances where the AI audio gets spazzy. I glanced at the player and if you start listening with about 3 minutes left, you'll hear an instance or two in a 60 second window. I've noticed that the quality has been going down slightly over the past month or two as well (the ai audio - not your material).
Still love it! Please keep it up! But wanted to be sure you were aware.