The farm worker studies are a big part of why I buy organic. I have the money to buy food that harms the workers less, and I feel a moral obligation to consider that with my purchases. Not everyone can afford to think that way, but I can, and I think it’s important. Happy to spend a little more to not harm my fellow humans. Same goes for animal welfare, if I can source meat from hunters, or smaller farms who treat their animals better, and also for wild seafood or farmed tilapia that does less damage to our oceans. Again not everyone can afford to do this, and I don’t judge anyone for their choices or financial limitations. But I do think those factors should be part of the conversation. (I’m not to the end yet so maybe you’ll get there).
What would be great is the evidence behind human health impact (or not, and not taking into account animal or environmental welfare) of organic, gmo, steroids, antibiotics in the carnivore food supply. It seems like for every additional descriptive label on a pack of chicken breast (for example) increases the price by 30%.
You have a point. This is why the USDA and FDA have standards and verification programs for claims on labels. The food industry found long ago that consumers will pay more for a product with claims than one without, and there is no real added value to the product. For example, rBST in milk and hormones in poultry. We are starting to see gluten free claims on products that are as far away from wheat protein as you can get, like raw beef. A consumer is more likely to pick out a steak with a gluten free claim than one without. Everyone is trying to get a competitive edge in world of commodities.
An interesting take, but ultimately of little utility. The same argument could be made about anything we buy. The opportunity costs of buying organic are the same as any other marketed product - spend less here and you can spend/save more there. I think a more interesting take would be the connection of eating organic with other healthy activities. In other words, and as noted in your discussion, if people who eat organic are more likely to make other healthy choices, is that causation or correlation?
Thanks for the comment! I don't think I agree with you.
You're right that you could make the same opportunity cost argument with other products, but each price premium will be more or less "worth paying" depending on the product. IMO, the differences are worth investigating if the product is ubiquitous enough, and food is ubiquitous. We all eat it.
Organic foods have a lot of marketing behind them suggesting they're healthier, and I get a lot of questions about this topic. So I see it as a useful discussion to unpack whether the supposed health benefits of organic are worth the price premium. Just my two cents speaking from the perspective as someone who gives information to a broad audience (I don't expect every single post to resonate with every single reader, but my hope is that enough do that the reader finds Two Percent helpful).
Oh, and to answer your question: definitely correlation! :)
You should follow this interview up with someone from the EWG. Cost aside do want your kids eating glyphosate? Do you want to eat meat that is changing society with growth hormones. I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s nobody worried about this shit then because everything was unknowingly organic. This guy’s views are slanted.
BTW the reason that organic food costs more is because the growers don’t get subsidies like the growers that poison everyone and destroy the soil and environment. Your guest simplistic argument is very weak. Maybe we should stop filtering water that’s full of chemicals and birth control because it’s going to cost more than the garbage that comes straight out of the tap.
As I mentioned in the conversation, I do think Costco is a good option for people who want to buy organic without as much of a price penalty. (I'd assume the other warehouse retailers are similar).
Spot on. Obsessing about perfect health and longevity is a Distressor, not to mention a 'fun-sucking' way to live.
Study the Blue Zones and the Power 9. Extended health-spans 'happen' because of the way the folks live their lives, not because they chase it.
Same with happiness ... it 'happens' because of the way the folks live their daily lives, NOT because they chase it.
Movement is our most powerful weapon in our arsenal of weapons that slow the 'pace' at which we 'biologically' age.
Purpose, our reason(s) to get up in the morning, bigger than ourselves, is our most powerful weapon in preserving joy, meaning and relevance in life. And our purpose will evolve as we journey through the decades.
As for the 'organic' food issue, what if 85% of the time, adults nailed these 3 BIG ROCKS:
1. Drank half of their BW [lbs] in ounces of water each day,
AND
2. Ate REAL, minimally-processed MACROS and Micros,
IN
3. 'timely' PORTIONS and PROportions for their age, sex, health status and PA level.
Are there a multitude of pebbles and granules out there for optimization? Thousands of them. Do they fill Big Rock Voids? NO. Can they fill a small crack? Maybe.
"Robust Aging" is rooted in our DAILY, weekly and seasonal habits, patterns and practices across decades .... NOT programs with a 'start and end' date, not one supplement, one relaxation technique, one cold plunge, one exercise, etc.
The farm worker studies are a big part of why I buy organic. I have the money to buy food that harms the workers less, and I feel a moral obligation to consider that with my purchases. Not everyone can afford to think that way, but I can, and I think it’s important. Happy to spend a little more to not harm my fellow humans. Same goes for animal welfare, if I can source meat from hunters, or smaller farms who treat their animals better, and also for wild seafood or farmed tilapia that does less damage to our oceans. Again not everyone can afford to do this, and I don’t judge anyone for their choices or financial limitations. But I do think those factors should be part of the conversation. (I’m not to the end yet so maybe you’ll get there).
Thank you for including a direct link to the transcript, much appreciated!
Of course. Thanks for letting me know it was useful!
What would be great is the evidence behind human health impact (or not, and not taking into account animal or environmental welfare) of organic, gmo, steroids, antibiotics in the carnivore food supply. It seems like for every additional descriptive label on a pack of chicken breast (for example) increases the price by 30%.
You have a point. This is why the USDA and FDA have standards and verification programs for claims on labels. The food industry found long ago that consumers will pay more for a product with claims than one without, and there is no real added value to the product. For example, rBST in milk and hormones in poultry. We are starting to see gluten free claims on products that are as far away from wheat protein as you can get, like raw beef. A consumer is more likely to pick out a steak with a gluten free claim than one without. Everyone is trying to get a competitive edge in world of commodities.
An interesting take, but ultimately of little utility. The same argument could be made about anything we buy. The opportunity costs of buying organic are the same as any other marketed product - spend less here and you can spend/save more there. I think a more interesting take would be the connection of eating organic with other healthy activities. In other words, and as noted in your discussion, if people who eat organic are more likely to make other healthy choices, is that causation or correlation?
Thanks for the comment! I don't think I agree with you.
You're right that you could make the same opportunity cost argument with other products, but each price premium will be more or less "worth paying" depending on the product. IMO, the differences are worth investigating if the product is ubiquitous enough, and food is ubiquitous. We all eat it.
Organic foods have a lot of marketing behind them suggesting they're healthier, and I get a lot of questions about this topic. So I see it as a useful discussion to unpack whether the supposed health benefits of organic are worth the price premium. Just my two cents speaking from the perspective as someone who gives information to a broad audience (I don't expect every single post to resonate with every single reader, but my hope is that enough do that the reader finds Two Percent helpful).
Oh, and to answer your question: definitely correlation! :)
You should follow this interview up with someone from the EWG. Cost aside do want your kids eating glyphosate? Do you want to eat meat that is changing society with growth hormones. I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s nobody worried about this shit then because everything was unknowingly organic. This guy’s views are slanted.
BTW the reason that organic food costs more is because the growers don’t get subsidies like the growers that poison everyone and destroy the soil and environment. Your guest simplistic argument is very weak. Maybe we should stop filtering water that’s full of chemicals and birth control because it’s going to cost more than the garbage that comes straight out of the tap.
Thanks for your comments! These are good questions.
One thing I'd point out is that fruits and vegetables don't really receive subsidies—it's more corn, soy, rice, wheat. And I think there are good questions to be asked about those subsidies. Tamar Haspel, who we did a post with awhile back, wrote about that here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/why-do-taxpayers-subsidize-rich-farmers/2018/03/15/50e89906-27b6-11e8-b79d-f3d931db7f68_story.html
This is great. I view organic food like AG1. Certainly won’t hurt you but isn’t really going to move the needle a ton either.
That seems like a fair comparison!
As I mentioned in the conversation, I do think Costco is a good option for people who want to buy organic without as much of a price penalty. (I'd assume the other warehouse retailers are similar).
"Americans spend about $3,100 a year on groceries. That’s $1000 to $1,600 a month for a family of four."
Need a math check here. One to $1.6K per month gets us $12 - $19K per year.
‘organic eaters have lower pesticide levels in their blood’. I’m ok with less pesticides in my blood.
Spot on. Obsessing about perfect health and longevity is a Distressor, not to mention a 'fun-sucking' way to live.
Study the Blue Zones and the Power 9. Extended health-spans 'happen' because of the way the folks live their lives, not because they chase it.
Same with happiness ... it 'happens' because of the way the folks live their daily lives, NOT because they chase it.
Movement is our most powerful weapon in our arsenal of weapons that slow the 'pace' at which we 'biologically' age.
Purpose, our reason(s) to get up in the morning, bigger than ourselves, is our most powerful weapon in preserving joy, meaning and relevance in life. And our purpose will evolve as we journey through the decades.
As for the 'organic' food issue, what if 85% of the time, adults nailed these 3 BIG ROCKS:
1. Drank half of their BW [lbs] in ounces of water each day,
AND
2. Ate REAL, minimally-processed MACROS and Micros,
IN
3. 'timely' PORTIONS and PROportions for their age, sex, health status and PA level.
Are there a multitude of pebbles and granules out there for optimization? Thousands of them. Do they fill Big Rock Voids? NO. Can they fill a small crack? Maybe.
"Robust Aging" is rooted in our DAILY, weekly and seasonal habits, patterns and practices across decades .... NOT programs with a 'start and end' date, not one supplement, one relaxation technique, one cold plunge, one exercise, etc.
Thank you, Michael and Bobby.
I don’t have any confidence in your guest expertise on this subject.